Lifeseal, Sikaflex or.... RUBRAIL TIME !!!

Just got an opportunity to have a "helper" tomorrow.

Gonna remove/reseal the rubrail, rubrail screws and the hull to deck joint.

Starting aft, don't expect to get it all done in a day.

Thinking about removing the stainless first, then the rubrail then

1) cleaning it all up with the pressure washer

or

2) acetone

applying sealant to the now cleaned

hull to deck joint
rubrail
all screw threads

The questions are:

Is the use of the pressure washer wise? Maybe just acetone?

what kind of sealant?

Sikaflex, 3000UV, 4000, 4200 ?

Likely silicone is NOT a good choice for this.

Suggestions?

I need to go out and get the sealant TODAY to take advantage of the "helper"

BEST !

RWS

SikaFlex 295UV for the hull to deck joint. I don't think a pressure washer is a good idea on a seam that is supposed to be waterproof. The last time I did my hull to deck joint, I manually scraped off the old sealant, cleaned it up with acetone, taped it and sealed it with SikaFlex 295UV.

I had all that done on my boat -
Pull the rubrail off the boat.
Remove the old caulking from the deck to hull joint. They mostly used a multi-tool with an offset abrasive blade to get in there and really scuff up the surfaces in the joint. They then cleaned with acetone on rags the entire area.
They then injected 3M 5200 into the joint completely filling the joint using long nose jumbo syringes.
The rubrail was cleaned and prepped then reattached using new 316 stainless steel screws.
Finally the top of the rubrail was sealed using Sikaflex 295UV.
It was the right way to do the job.

We had a good long thread in "Ask the Captains".

Eh - I just looked at that old thread and all of the pics gone. Here are a couple -

I will be doing the same in a few weeks. Tt- elaborate on the long nose syringes and what is different than the nose on the tube? Do you move the 5200 into the syringe?

In over 30 years of messing with boats, I've never resealed a rubrail.

Replaced the stainless insert on my 10 meter once, but never got to the "shoebox" hull to deck joint.

Are those hull to deck gaps normal?

To be expected?

BEST !

RWS

boatrboy said:

I will be doing the same in a few weeks. Tt- elaborate on the long nose syringes and what is different than the nose on the tube? Do you move the 5200 into the syringe?

Click to expand...

They are called irrigation syringes. Maybe dental syringes. The nose was long and curved. I do know they filled the syringes from caulking tubes of the 5200.

ttmott said:

I had all that done on my boat -
Pull the rubrail off the boat.
Remove the old caulking from the deck to hull joint. They mostly used a multi-tool with an offset abrasive blade to get in there and really scuff up the surfaces in the joint. They then cleaned with acetone on rags the entire area.
They then injected 3M 5200 into the joint completely filling the joint using long nose jumbo syringes.
The rubrail was cleaned and prepped then reattached using new 316 stainless steel screws.
Finally the top of the rubrail was sealed using Sikaflex 295UV.
It was the right way to do the job.

We had a good long thread in "Ask the Captains".

Click to expand...

That's basically what I did on my 270 AJ. Differences: I reused most of the SS screws, and I did not put sealant on the top of the rub rail.

Maybe A Dancer said:

In over 30 years of messing with boats, I've never resealed a rubrail.

Replaced the stainless insert on my 10 meter once, but never got to the "shoebox" hull to deck joint.

Are those hull to deck gaps normal?

To be expected?

BEST !

RWS

Click to expand...

It's "kinda" normal. Fiberglass layup is a hand process with variability in profile on the back side. But...in some cases Sea Ray didn't do a good job in sealing the hull to deck joint. Or the sealant may have failed.

A couple tips for this project.

Use 5200 for the hull to deck joint. This is a structural item that you don't want to come apart, and the perfect use case for 5200.

Don't use a pressure washer. Acetone or MEK would be a good cleaner. MEK has a slower evaporation time but is harder to find. Wear nitrile gloves. Change gloves often when caulking so you don't spread it around.

An oscilating multitool with a scraper blade will really help remove the old caulk.

Use a wedge of some type to help open up the joint and clean it out. After scraping slide a rag under there with some solvent to pull out the old gunk.

VERY IMPORTANT: DO NOT remove all the hull to deck screws on both sides at the same time. And especially: do not remove all the joint screws at the bow!!! The bow joint is very likely to spring UP and away, and you'll have a VERY VERY hard time getting it to come back together.

When applying the caulk, some areas of the joint will be touch and be hard to inject caulk with the nozzle. Use a wedge of some type (screw driver, small pry bar, etc) to jam under the upper part so you get a good dose of sealant in there.

If you find screws that have stripped the holes, replace the screws with one diameter size larger. I only had a small number of these.

Don't make the screws super tight when the sealant is wet. That will make too much ooze out. Make the screws just snug, then come back and tighten up when the sealant has set.

They didn't remove any of the joint structural screws on my 52 - just cleaned around them. I wouldn't mess with them at all (they were bolts not screws on my boat). On the bigger boats the inside of the joint is glassed but it's not perfect as getting into all of the areas would be next to impossible.
Here is a pic looking back under the swim platform. That row of bolts painted white is where the deck to hull joint is -

ttmott said:

They didn't remove any of the joint structural screws on my 52 - just cleaned around them. I wouldn't mess with them at all (they were bolts not screws on my boat). On the bigger boats the inside of the joint is glassed but it's not perfect as getting into all of the areas would be next to impossible.
Here is a pic looking back under the swim platform. That row of bolts painted white is where the deck to hull joint is -
View attachment 162386

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Smaller boats are not bolted/glassed like this. They use No. 8 coarse thread stainless screws through the 2 layers, the outer deck part and the inner hull part. In mine, there should have been caulk that sealed the joint. Whoever did the caulked was really lousy at it, barely putting any sealant on the joint. There were large areas of my boat's joint that had no sealant.

It seems like it was not in the build plan to secure the joint with a mechanical fastener plus structural adhesive, but rely only on the screws and some caulk for water tightness. That seems like an error. The flexing of the hull caused some of the screws to pull and allowed the joint to open.

Anyway, after I fixed the joint with 5200 it solved a couple things. I no longer had water getting into my forward sump, and the boat felt much more solid in heavier seas.

Mine was also a mess. Hardly any bonding besides the screws. It was not sealed very well, either.

Did the exact process specified above. Wedges, scraping, acetone, 5200, new screws. Made one heck of a difference in how the boat handles, feels, and sounds. All positive.

With help I completed about 80% of the job yesterday.

Was both surprised and pleased to find no gaps in the deck to hull joint, with the exception of some very minor caulk gaps at both aft outside corners.

Did see a couple of deck to hull screws not completely seated.

After a great deal of thought and research, decided to use Sikaflex 291-LOT, a product recommended by the Sikaflex website SPECIFICALLY for this application.

Sikaflex®-291 LOT is a non-sag 1-component polyurethane sealant specifically developed for the marine market, which cures on exposure to atmospheric moisture. It is designed for applications that require additional working time.

• Use above and below water line
• Bonds well to a wide variety of substrates
• Elastic

Sikaflex®-291 LOT is a multipurpose sealant for the use in marine applications where a long working time is necessary such as for bedding-in of teak plank decking laid on top of the sub deck surface. It is suitable to make elastic, vibration-resistant joint seals, and can also be used for a variety of interior sealing applications. Sikaflex®-291 LOT bonds well to the materials commonly used in marine construction like wood, metals, metal primers and paint coatings (2-C systems), and fiberglass. Sikaflex®-291 LOT must not be used to seal plastics that are prone to stress cracking (e.g. Plexiglass, Polycarbonate, etc.). This product is suitable for experienced professional users only. Tests with actual substrates and conditions have to be performed ensuring adhesion and material compatibility.

The elasticity/flexibility factor was important for me, as in conversation with a well-known CSR contributor mentioned this would be important concerning the occasional "bumping" that may occur at a dock.

Another important factor was the extremely slow curing time, especially here in SW Florida on a hot day. The sections that were removed are both large and cumbersome and even once the surface prep is completed a good deal of time is required to complete the task.

We had to use a tiny pick to remove embedded wood fibers from many of the screwheads where POs had rubbed against wooden docks.

We then removed the stainless bar, then the rubrail. Pressure washed a good deal of dirt/grime /debiis from the undersides of both.

No pressure washing of the boat itself.

We removed the dirt aggressively with Spray-9

Then scraped all the old, loose caulk from around the fasteners and used a small stainless & bronze hand held wire brush to get into the nooks and crannies.

The hull to deck joint was really tight, much tighter than expected and surprisingly 99.8% perfectly intact, so we used that small stainless steel wire brush and acetone to get that surface really clean.

Other than the small gaps found in the aft corners, likely we could have left it alone, but we ran a strip of masking tape along the bottom and applied the Sikaflex over top.

We then filled all the rubrail screw holes with Sikaflex and while reattaching the rubrail, applied sikaflex to the bottom half of the screw threads.

As with the factory installation, no sealant was applied to the back of the rubrail.

No sealant was used or necessary on the small screws used to attach the stainless to the rubrail.

12 hours in, we still lack the bow nose and a small section on the port side forward, and plan on completing that before our rainy season begins on 6/1.

Photos to follow.

BEST !

RWS

I should add that I'm feeling my age this morning.

Stiff and sore and moving slow.

Once this boat is restored to 100% BASELINE, it's unlikely I have another such project left in me.

Anyway, here's some photos:

BEST !

RWS

hull to deck joint - view from underneath

Wow - you are doing this in the water!! I would have lost half the screws by now.

Great update. Did you just use the tip in the Sikaflex tube and cut on an angle?

yes, and forced it in, over the top of the factory seal with a finger

Man I thought that was a miserable job on my tiny boat on the trailer, but doing it on a 45 in water

Well, that was Friday.

We worked from 7 am to 7 pm

Despite my helper doing most of the heacy lifting, I was feeling more than 66 years old all weekend!

Guess thats why I brought in a detailler.

BEST !

RWS

Maybe A Dancer said:

I should add that I'm feeling my age this morning.

Stiff and sore and moving slow.

Once this boat is restored to 100% BASELINE, it's unlikely I have another such project left in me.

Anyway, here's some photos:

BEST !

RWS

View attachment 162415hull to deck joint - view from underneath


View attachment 162416


View attachment 162417


View attachment 162418View attachment 162419

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I started going to a train with my wife last year. I told her a big goal was flexibility so when I have to do “boat yoga” in the bilge I can still move around and don’t stiffened up and get stuck.